Category: DNA

Who am I? What's my name?

Category: DNA


R1b-L21 Descendant Tree borrowed from the 'R L21, Z290 and Subclades FamilyTreeDNA Project'
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l21/About/Results

(Click the image for a larger version.)

For a number of years I've believed my patrilineal line (my Hibbitt ancestors) dated back to the early 18th century, being located in the village of Exton in the county of Rutland. However, recent DNA discoveries have thrown this into question.

The records I've looked at to date show no sign of a problem but it's looking likely that my family has a NPE (non-paternal event) or misattributed parentage. How do I know this?

I recently started a Facebook Group called Hibbitt/Hibbett (plus other variants) Family History Research Group. There are a number of people in this group who descend from a John HIBBIT & Mary Toft who married in St Pancras, London, in 1770. One member, who is a direct male line descendant of this couple, ran his father's AncestryDNA test through the Morley Y-SNP Subclade Predictor Tool and received a basic haplogroup of R1b-Z2534.

My dad knows his current haplogroup (R1b-Z36747), having taken a number of Y-DNA tests. It can be written as a series of subclades moving forward in time as various mutations arise:
R1b-M343 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > P312 > Z290/S461 > L21 > DF13 > DF21 > S3058 > S424 > S426 > CTS2187/S190 > Z36747

Unfortunately, the Z2534 haplogroup split away from my dad's haplogroup at DF13, a haplogroup which was formed in approximately 2600 BC. The path is:
R1b-M343 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > P312 > Z290/S461 > L21 > DF13 > Z253 > Z2534

Therefore my dad and the descendant of John HIBBIT (m. 1770) cannot share a recent patrilineal ancestor.

At this point I wasn't too concerned as paper records haven't connected the London HIBBIT family to the Rutland HIBBITT/HIBBETT family. I was therefore keen to hear from descendants of my most distant known ancestor (MDKA), John Hybit, who married three times in Exton between 1712 and 1732.

I believed I was descended through John HYBIT's son, William, and so I was pleased to discover that a descendant of John's son, Matthew, had received his AncestryDNA results. He too was a direct male line descendant and very kindly ran his DNA through the Morley Tool. It turns out that he too, received a result of R1b-Z2534.

The conclusion to be drawn from this is that the London HIBBIT group and the Rutland HIBBITT/HIBBETT group share a distant ancestor dating back to about 4600 years ago, give or take a few centuries either way. The likelihood is that if they were to undertake dedicated Y-DNA testing, they would probably find that their common ancestor is much more recent than this and they would also be eligible to join the R-Z253 Project at FamilyTreeDNA.

Unfortunately for me and my close family, it is looking very likely that we are the odd-ones-out. However, I would still be glad if additional, suitable candidates would ascertain their haplogroup so we can be more certain of the facts and to perhaps narrow down precisely in which generation the NPE occurred.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

Latest on our Hibbitt Y-DNA kits

Category: DNA

My dad's Y STR test has recently been upgraded to 111 markers. However, as I thought might be the case, he doesn't yet have any matches at this level. This would be because the right men haven't yet taken the test. Hopefully we shall have some men who are descended from John Hybit of Exton, Rutland, testing in the future and then we may begin to discern which markers are related to which branches of the family.

Z36747 men on The Big Tree
Z36747 men on Alex Williamson's 'The Big Tree'

In the meantime, Alex Williamson has begun updating 'The Big Tree'. Initially dad's kit was placed with another kit whose ancestor was called Doggart. However, a new Big Y kit (Chism) has recently arrived and formed a new subclade below Z36747 with Doggart. Dad now sits alone at Z36747 until any closer matches appear.

Note: I've updated my 'Tracing Annie Hibbitt's Deep Ancestral Roots Through Her Dad's Y-DNA' page with these changes.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

How to obtain a Y-DNA haplogroup from an autosomal DNA test for free

Category: DNA


The Morley Y-SNP Subclade Predictor Tool showing my dad's estimated haplogroup
(Click the image for a larger version.)

If you are male and have taken an AncestryDNA, 23andMe or MyHeritage autosomal DNA test, it may be possible to extract some Y-DNA data from your DNA file to obtain an estimated haplogroup. I should emphasize that this isn't a substitute for a dedicated Y-DNA test but it might be useful in pointing you in the right direction for further testing or to see whether you are likely to match with others who share your surname.

It's free to use the Morley Y-SNP Subclade Predictor Tool at https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal. All you need to do is download your raw data file from one of the three testing companies mentioned above and run it through the tool so there's nothing to stop you having a go. It's very easy to do. There are limitations in that the SNP needs to be present in the Morley tool and in your autosomal DNA test which is why you will only get a basic haplogroup.

This link http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2017/08/updated-method-to-get-ydna-haplogroup.html provides instructions on how to use your AncestryDNA kit with the Morley Tool.

My dad took the Big Y test at FamilyTreeDNA which gave him a current terminal SNP of Z36747 which can be written as...

R1b-M343 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > P312 > Z290/S461 > L21 > DF13 > DF21 > S3058 > S424 > S426 > CTS2187/S190 > Z36747

Before ordering Big Y, using my dad's AncestryDNA kit and the Morley Tool, my dad's haplogroup was reported as S190. You can see therefore that he made it quite a way down the Y phylogenetic (or evolutionary) tree towards his terminal SNP by simply using his autosomal test.

Likewise, my husband, Harvey, has recently ordered a Big Y test but he's undertaken some SNP testing in the past to give him a subclade of S18890 which can be written as...

R1b-M343 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > U106 > L48 > Z9 > Z30 > Z2 > Z7 > Z8 > Z338 > Z11 > Z12 > Z8175 > FGC12057 > S18890*

The Morley Tool gave him a haplogroup of Z12 which is how I knew to order the L48 SNP Panel at YSEQ. The Big Y will supersede this SNP Panel when the results are back and he might even end up further downstream of the S18890 SNP.

To find out more about these haplogroups and what it means for my HIBBITT family and Harvey's BARNES family click on the following links...
http://www.hibbitt.org.uk/dna/y-dna-hibbitt.html
http://www.hibbitt.org.uk/dna/y-dna-barnes.html

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

Tracing my HIBBITT family through DNA - Can you help?

Category: DNA

Blacksmiths Lane, Exton, Rutland
Blacksmiths Lane, Exton, Rutland
(Photograph kindly supplied by Caroline White, a distant cousin in Oundle, Peterborough.)


I'm seeking men called HIBBITT / HIBBETT or any of the variants listed here, to see whether you would be willing to test your Y DNA. If your name isn't Hibbitt but you suspect you are descended from a direct paternal ancestor with the name, then come on board.

Sorry ladies, we don't possess a Y chromosome but it would still be great to compare if you have taken an autosomal test such as the AncestryDNA, 23andMe, Family Finder or MyHeritage test. If so, please get in touch.

Since my dad took the Big Y DNA test at FamilyTreeDNA we've discovered that an ancestor of ours may have lived in or around the Stirling area of Scotland in Roman times.

Y DNA traces the patrilineal line (eg. father's father's father, etc.) which, in our case, is our Hibbitt line. However, this particular ancestor would have lived in a time before the adoption of surnames.

I've put together a comprehensive account of the history of my Hibbitt line dating from 60,000 years ago to the present day.

READ THE FULL STORY HERE

Through traditional research, I've traced my Hibbitts back to the beginning of the 18th century. I found my 6 x great-grandfather, John Hybit, living in a village called Exton located in the county of Rutland, the smallest county in England.

Dad's DNA matches quite a number of men who have all tested positive for a SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) called R-S424, otherwise known as the Little Scottish Cluster. Many men, but not all, in the S424 project at FTDNA trace their ancestry to southern Scotland where their common ancestor is believed to have lived centuries ago.

Just how and when our relatives found their way from Scotland to Rutland remains a mystery but I'm hoping that, as additional data comes in from more Y-DNA testers, we may learn more about the Z36747 subclade which is dad's current terminal SNP. Dad has some novel variants in his Big Y test which may tell us more in the future if another Big Y tester has the same variant(s).

If you are a male called HIBBITT (or a variation of the name) please would you consider taking a Y-DNA test. It doesn't necessarily have to be the Big Y as there may be cheaper options depending on your goals. It may also be possible to obtain some Y DNA data from an autosomal test too. Please contact me if you'd like more information or if you do decide to test.

John Hybit seems to have been the progenitor of so many who carry variations of his name and it would be good to learn whether we are all related and where he might have originated from.

READ ABOUT THE DEEP ANCESTRAL ROOTS OF THE HIBBITT FAMILY HERE

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

DNA testing is getting more popular

Category: DNA

AncestryDNA Matches
Part of my Dad's AncestryDNA Match List

A nice surprise popped up in my family's DNA match lists a couple of days ago. Unknown to me, the grand-daughter of a known cousin on my dad's side took the AncestryDNA test. I still have a few gaps in my family tree and having other close relatives tested makes it easier to narrow down on which side of the family to concentrate the search. My dad was an only child and and so was his mother so my only hope of finding a close cousin is on my dad's father's side so you can imagine how thrilled I was to see this match appear.

I remain hopeful that one day I will be able to discover who my 2 x great-grandfather's parents were. My ancestor, Henry Ridley, was born in Birmingham in about 1841 but this is all I know of him. The new cousin match is also descended from Henry and so anyone matching both her and my dad will point to a match on the Hibbitt/Ridley side of the family.

Noted by Ancestry as a 3rd-4th cousin, the relative is actually a 1st cousin 3 times removed to my dad and shares 144 centimorgans across 8 DNA segments. Because older generations share more DNA, I'm looking forward to other members of her family testing too.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

And I thought the Cornish were Celts!

Category: DNA

I've been tracing Harvey's deep patrilineal ancestral roots (father's father's father's line etc.) through the use of Y-DNA.

Join me as I journey from 'Adam' in Africa through to the 20th century Barnes family living in Newlyn, Cornwall. You'll meet 10,500 year old cattle herders from Mesopotamia, Bronze Age Scandinavians and Iron Age Germanic tribes. Oh, and not a Celt in sight!

Newlyn properties owned by the Barnes family during the 20th century
Newlyn properties owned by the Barnes family during the 20th century

For those who are interested, Harvey's larger haplogroup is U106 and his subclade is R-S18890*.

Read the full story by clicking HERE.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

GEDmatch Starter Guide

Category: DNA

I've reorganised the DNA section of my website and now I have an index page available here.

GEDmatch - Tools for DNA and Genealogy Research

There are a few links near the bottom of the page, one of which is a tutorial to help you get started with GEDmatch. This can be found here.

GEDmatch is a free service where you can upload your raw DNA data file with the potential of matching with more cousins than just the ones you see at your testing company. The site also provides some useful analysis tools, not necessarily available at your testing company, and other utilities such as Admixture (ethnicity) tools.

I highly recommend GEDmatch for anyone who wants to make more of their DNA results.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

Testing dad's Y-DNA in search of my Hibbitt roots

Category: DNA

DNA Helix
Designed by Freepik

A Y37 Y-DNA kit for my dad is on order from FamilyTreeDNA in the hope we may be able to learn a little more about our direct paternal ancestry. This would be our Hibbitt line where our earliest known ancestor is John Hybit who married three times in Exton, Rutland, between 1712 and 1732.

Only men can take the Y-DNA test as women don't possess a Y chromosome. The aim is to see whether my dad's DNA matches anyone else with a similar surname, or if not, then perhaps find a pointer to see where to look if a different surname pops up frequently with any other men who have tested.

The Y37 test looks for STR markers which change slowly from one generation to the next. This means if dad has a match, they could end up being related within or outside the genealogical time frame where records can assist in the research. Let's hope he gets a close match!

If you are male and have, or you know any men with, the following surnames it would be great if you/they could also take the Y-DNA test at FamilyTreeDNA and then join the recently started Hibbert DNA Project to find out whether we have a common ancestor:

Hibbert
Hibbart
Hebert
Hibberd
Ibbert
Hibbit
Hibbitt
Hibbet
Hibbett
Hybit
Hybut
Ibbot
Ibbott
Abbot
Abbott

The Y37 test also provides an estimated Y-DNA haplogroup which indicates where a person's deep paternal ancestry may have originated. I have already calculated dad's Y-DNA haplogroup using his autosomal DNA test from AncestryDNA (using Method One here) so it will be interesting to note whether the FamilyTreeDNA Y37 test confirms this.

Dad's calculated haplogroup is S190 which points to an ancestor who probably lived in Scotland somewhere near Stirling about 1800 years ago. In order to fine-tune dad's membership of the Little Scottish Cluster, as it is known, we have ordered a specific Y-SNP test which other men in this group have tested positive for. We now wait with bated breath.

Thanks dad, for being a great sport.

Update June 2017: Since my original blog post, Dad's SNP test confirmed his subclade as CTS2187/S190. He then undertook the Big Y test and his terminal SNP has now been refined to R-Z36747.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

Church Record Sunday: DNA helps me find more ancestors

Category: DNA

St Andrew's Church, Curry Rivel
St Andrew's Church, Curry Rivel.

My latest breakthrough has come via DNA testing. For some time now I have known my 5 x great-grandmother was called Anne Twogood/Toogood. She married my 5 x great-grandfather, Robert Weaver snr., in Curry Rivel, Somerset, in 1779 but I had nothing else to go on. There were no suitable baptisms in the village and I didn't know when she was born.

Then last week I received an email from a person matching my maternal aunt's DNA and I immediately noticed the name, Toogood, in his tree. It turns out this person is descended from Anne's brother, James Toogood, and so, through parish records, I was able to ascertain that my 6 x great-grandparents were Robert Toogood and Elizabeth Ostler.

Robert Toogood was baptized in nearby Aller and this is where he married Elizabeth. I went on to discover that Elizabeth's family were from Curry Rivel and so my association with this village on this line dates back to at least the early 18th century when my 7 x great-grandparents, Edward Ostler and Mary Rich, married there in 1724 and had a total of eleven children. Sadly, so many of them died as infants or children, two of them being buried within a week of each other.

Because of the random nature of DNA, it's interesting to note that my mum didn't share any DNA with this match so, not surprisingly, neither did I. This is why it's great to have other family members tested.

[Why Church Record Sunday? This phrase has been included in the title in order to take part in Daily Blogging Prompts at Geneabloggers]

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]

New Genealogical DNA web page

Category: DNA

DNA

I have today launched a new page on my website briefly outlining a few suggestions for people who match our families' DNA.

There are plenty of resources on the internet offering detailed information about the subject of genealogical DNA. Rather than reinventing the wheel, my page is a starter for anyone who thinks they may be related to me or Harvey and would like to know where we tested and what else they can do with their DNA results in order to carry out deeper analysis.

Topics include: 'Cousins, please consider testing', 'What is the AncestryDNA test' and 'Upload your raw data to GEDmatch'.

Click to view my Genealogical DNA web page.

[Note: All content on the Hibbitt & Barnes Family History website and blog is copyrighted. Click here for conditions of use.]
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